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	<title>Comments on: Google Claims to be the Lone Defender of Orphans: Not lone, not defender</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Colin Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1451</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1451</guid>
		<description>Sadly all ideals seem to have their heads turned by business in the end. For once it would be nice to see a result that benefits all mankind and not just the shareholders of major corporations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly all ideals seem to have their heads turned by business in the end. For once it would be nice to see a result that benefits all mankind and not just the shareholders of major corporations.</p>
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		<title>By: Daycare</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1439</link>
		<dc:creator>Daycare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1439</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Work From Home ......&lt;/strong&gt;

It is amazing how many moms over look this one ......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Work From Home &#8230;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>It is amazing how many moms over look this one &#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MyMediaLand</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1350</link>
		<dc:creator>MyMediaLand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1350</guid>
		<description>I think all media should be free. i will make all information available to most people</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all media should be free. i will make all information available to most people</p>
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		<title>By: Frances Grimble</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>Frances Grimble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>In all this hoopla about orphan works, people seem to commonly overlook that Google scanned large quantities of in-print books by easily locatable authors and publishers. Regardless of how you feel about "freeing the orphans," these in-print books are financially necessary to authors and publishers. 

I am a self-publisher of eight books, only one of which is out of print--but it has been supplanted by a second edition that contains all the same material, with additions and updates. I have a website. My books are carried by Ingram (the industry’s largest wholesaler), by Amazon.com, and by numerous other bookstores locatable on the web.

I do not know whether Google scanned my books, because Google has not made their database of scanned books publicly available. I have never seen any public statement from Google (only extensive author speculation) as to how, if at all, the public database represented by Google Book Search compares to Google’s private database of books scanned for the Library Project.

Back when the Author's Guild suit was filed, Google set up a website where copyright holders could list their titles as "not to be scanned" by the Library Project. This was for copyright holders who were not Google Partners, and the site stated the books withdrawn from scanning consideration would also be absent from Google Book Search. I listed all my books in a timely way. However, five of my eight books (one searchable only by title, not author) are now listed on Google Book Search. No text is available, which would be a sure sign that they were scanned, so I don’t know why any data is on Google Book Search when Google said it would not be. I do not object to bibliographic data alone being there, but I would very much like to know whether this means my books were scanned against my express wishes.

In January 2009, I opted out of the entire Settlement (the unrevised version), via a letter written by a copyright lawyer and sent by certified mail to the Settlement Administrator. I understand why he advised me to send a certified letter, because I’ve seen Google’s on-line opt-out form in operation. Pretty much every time you register or buy something on the net, you get a confirmation web page and/or email. After submitting Google’s opt-out-of-the-Settlement form, you get nothing. You do not know whether your opt-out data was registered and you cannot legally prove later that you opted out. I advise any copyright holder who opted out using the online form, to follow this up with a certified letter. 

Then I tried to find out whether my books had been scanned—which information I think should be freely available to all copyright holders, to help them decide whether to opt out of or into the Settlement. I received a form response that said this information would only be released if I opted IN “for fear of false claims.” I said I was only interested in my own books, and submitted full bibliographic information on each, including ISBNs. I received the same response. But I’ve also seen the opt-in form. All it requires is basic bibliographic information that someone who did want to make a false claim could easily find on Amazon and numerous other places.

And:  The revised version of the Settlement still contains that paragraph near the end of the main part that says Google will not commit to _not_ publishing the titles of those who have opted out of the entire Settlement.

Some authors have asked me, why not remain in the Settlement and just opt out my in-print titles? I don’t do business with anyone I can’t trust. I don’t want a publisher (Google) who has massively and knowingly violated copyright law. I don’t want a publisher who theoretically offers me opt-outs (options) but will not commit to honoring them. I don’t want a publisher who will not give me open information about what they have done with my books. I don’t want a publisher who scans my books, then offers me a contract negotiated between themselves and another party (the Author’s Guild) the terms of which I cannot negotiate. Nor can I effectively protest if Google makes a “mistake” and sells any in-print titles that I opted out of the Settlement. (Having to go to Google’s arbitration if they make a “mistake” is a shuck.) I don’t want a publisher who tells me they will do anything they want with my copyrighted material without my prior permission, and pay me what they choose, and that all I can do is lie down and take it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all this hoopla about orphan works, people seem to commonly overlook that Google scanned large quantities of in-print books by easily locatable authors and publishers. Regardless of how you feel about &#8220;freeing the orphans,&#8221; these in-print books are financially necessary to authors and publishers. </p>
<p>I am a self-publisher of eight books, only one of which is out of print&#8211;but it has been supplanted by a second edition that contains all the same material, with additions and updates. I have a website. My books are carried by Ingram (the industry’s largest wholesaler), by Amazon.com, and by numerous other bookstores locatable on the web.</p>
<p>I do not know whether Google scanned my books, because Google has not made their database of scanned books publicly available. I have never seen any public statement from Google (only extensive author speculation) as to how, if at all, the public database represented by Google Book Search compares to Google’s private database of books scanned for the Library Project.</p>
<p>Back when the Author&#8217;s Guild suit was filed, Google set up a website where copyright holders could list their titles as &#8220;not to be scanned&#8221; by the Library Project. This was for copyright holders who were not Google Partners, and the site stated the books withdrawn from scanning consideration would also be absent from Google Book Search. I listed all my books in a timely way. However, five of my eight books (one searchable only by title, not author) are now listed on Google Book Search. No text is available, which would be a sure sign that they were scanned, so I don’t know why any data is on Google Book Search when Google said it would not be. I do not object to bibliographic data alone being there, but I would very much like to know whether this means my books were scanned against my express wishes.</p>
<p>In January 2009, I opted out of the entire Settlement (the unrevised version), via a letter written by a copyright lawyer and sent by certified mail to the Settlement Administrator. I understand why he advised me to send a certified letter, because I’ve seen Google’s on-line opt-out form in operation. Pretty much every time you register or buy something on the net, you get a confirmation web page and/or email. After submitting Google’s opt-out-of-the-Settlement form, you get nothing. You do not know whether your opt-out data was registered and you cannot legally prove later that you opted out. I advise any copyright holder who opted out using the online form, to follow this up with a certified letter. </p>
<p>Then I tried to find out whether my books had been scanned—which information I think should be freely available to all copyright holders, to help them decide whether to opt out of or into the Settlement. I received a form response that said this information would only be released if I opted IN “for fear of false claims.” I said I was only interested in my own books, and submitted full bibliographic information on each, including ISBNs. I received the same response. But I’ve also seen the opt-in form. All it requires is basic bibliographic information that someone who did want to make a false claim could easily find on Amazon and numerous other places.</p>
<p>And:  The revised version of the Settlement still contains that paragraph near the end of the main part that says Google will not commit to _not_ publishing the titles of those who have opted out of the entire Settlement.</p>
<p>Some authors have asked me, why not remain in the Settlement and just opt out my in-print titles? I don’t do business with anyone I can’t trust. I don’t want a publisher (Google) who has massively and knowingly violated copyright law. I don’t want a publisher who theoretically offers me opt-outs (options) but will not commit to honoring them. I don’t want a publisher who will not give me open information about what they have done with my books. I don’t want a publisher who scans my books, then offers me a contract negotiated between themselves and another party (the Author’s Guild) the terms of which I cannot negotiate. Nor can I effectively protest if Google makes a “mistake” and sells any in-print titles that I opted out of the Settlement. (Having to go to Google’s arbitration if they make a “mistake” is a shuck.) I don’t want a publisher who tells me they will do anything they want with my copyrighted material without my prior permission, and pay me what they choose, and that all I can do is lie down and take it.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Brantley: Google Books: A High Bar for Approval &#8211; MR PC EASY</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1245</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Brantley: Google Books: A High Bar for Approval &#8211; MR PC EASY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1245</guid>
		<description>[...] digitization. Google was not the first entity to attempt to create a digital book collection. The Internet Archive and others were engaged in this endeavor for years before Google arrived on the scene, but they [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] digitization. Google was not the first entity to attempt to create a digital book collection. The Internet Archive and others were engaged in this endeavor for years before Google arrived on the scene, but they [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JP_Fife</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1165</link>
		<dc:creator>JP_Fife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1165</guid>
		<description>"And many of us are objecting because we have been working together for years on the mass scanning of out-of-print books– and have worked to get books online for far longer than Google– and Google’s “settlement” could hurt our efforts."

Then you are as guilty as Google of theft. Fair Use doesn't cut it as that is primarily part of American Law. Worldwide 'fair use' differs.

Orphan Works is also a red herring. The point is simple: is a book in copyright or out of copyright? If out of copyright anyone can do anything with it. If in copyright you need permission. Saying it is an "orphan work" is akin to saying no one has lived in a house for years, can't trace the owner, so it's ok to break into it or try and sell it to someone else. I realise copyrights aren't houses but they are RIGHTS, and authors have the right not to have their work spattered across the internet without their permission. Are you going to trot out the 'doing them a favour' argument next?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And many of us are objecting because we have been working together for years on the mass scanning of out-of-print books– and have worked to get books online for far longer than Google– and Google’s “settlement” could hurt our efforts.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then you are as guilty as Google of theft. Fair Use doesn&#8217;t cut it as that is primarily part of American Law. Worldwide &#8216;fair use&#8217; differs.</p>
<p>Orphan Works is also a red herring. The point is simple: is a book in copyright or out of copyright? If out of copyright anyone can do anything with it. If in copyright you need permission. Saying it is an &#8220;orphan work&#8221; is akin to saying no one has lived in a house for years, can&#8217;t trace the owner, so it&#8217;s ok to break into it or try and sell it to someone else. I realise copyrights aren&#8217;t houses but they are RIGHTS, and authors have the right not to have their work spattered across the internet without their permission. Are you going to trot out the &#8216;doing them a favour&#8217; argument next?</p>
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		<title>By: RSS For Gadgets &#187; Google&#8217;s Brin defends $125m book deal</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1161</link>
		<dc:creator>RSS For Gadgets &#187; Google&#8217;s Brin defends $125m book deal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1161</guid>
		<description>[...] longer than Google – and Google&#8217;s &#8217;settlement&#8217; could hurt our efforts,&#8221; he wrote in a blog post on Wednesday. &#8220;A major part of our efforts have concentrated on changing the law so everyone would [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] longer than Google – and Google&#8217;s &#8217;settlement&#8217; could hurt our efforts,&#8221; he wrote in a blog post on Wednesday. &#8220;A major part of our efforts have concentrated on changing the law so everyone would [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Eldred</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1156</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Eldred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1156</guid>
		<description>Originally I supported the fair use claims of Google against the suit, but in reading the settlement it is obvious it is defective. Brewster is correct, we need to pass orphan works legislation, not make new copyright law through a private settlement between parties that are not interested in a balance with the public interest.   One example to prove Brin is disingenuous:  A decade ago I scanned a book that was in the public domain, Edwin McClelland's great translation of Natsume Soseki's great novel "Kokoro," and posted it online from my home web server (you can read it online for free at the Internet Archive now).  I see that Google Book Search has also scanned the book, but makes available only snippets, and links to where one can buy printed copies.  There is no indication when an unlocked copy will be available or copyright status metadata.  Another site lists the book for free, but it is a different book by the same title.  The publisher bought the copyright but failed to renew it, as they admitted in a letter to me.  I respect the translator, who died earlier this year, but you can see that Google is not respecting the public domain.  More than half the books published since 1923 did not have copyright renewed, and it is fraudulent for Google and the publishers to claim they should profit from them.  The best way to allow us to publish works since 1923 would be to set up registries where copyright holders had to register their claims and license terms.  The objection to that is that international copyright law does not require it.  So change the law and allow the Internet and our common culture to flourish, everyone will benefit when market failure is corrected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Originally I supported the fair use claims of Google against the suit, but in reading the settlement it is obvious it is defective. Brewster is correct, we need to pass orphan works legislation, not make new copyright law through a private settlement between parties that are not interested in a balance with the public interest.   One example to prove Brin is disingenuous:  A decade ago I scanned a book that was in the public domain, Edwin McClelland&#8217;s great translation of Natsume Soseki&#8217;s great novel &#8220;Kokoro,&#8221; and posted it online from my home web server (you can read it online for free at the Internet Archive now).  I see that Google Book Search has also scanned the book, but makes available only snippets, and links to where one can buy printed copies.  There is no indication when an unlocked copy will be available or copyright status metadata.  Another site lists the book for free, but it is a different book by the same title.  The publisher bought the copyright but failed to renew it, as they admitted in a letter to me.  I respect the translator, who died earlier this year, but you can see that Google is not respecting the public domain.  More than half the books published since 1923 did not have copyright renewed, and it is fraudulent for Google and the publishers to claim they should profit from them.  The best way to allow us to publish works since 1923 would be to set up registries where copyright holders had to register their claims and license terms.  The objection to that is that international copyright law does not require it.  So change the law and allow the Internet and our common culture to flourish, everyone will benefit when market failure is corrected.</p>
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		<title>By: google &#187; Brin Defends Book Search Settlement; Google &#38; Plaintiffs Get One &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1154</link>
		<dc:creator>google &#187; Brin Defends Book Search Settlement; Google &#38; Plaintiffs Get One &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 06:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1154</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8212; including the Book Search legal battle &#8212; Brewster Kahle of the Internet Archive responded by calling some Google&#8217;s statements &#8220;twisted at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8212; including the Book Search legal battle &#8212; Brewster Kahle of the Internet Archive responded by calling some Google&#8217;s statements &#8220;twisted at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Briefly Noted for October 9, 2009</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1153</link>
		<dc:creator>Briefly Noted for October 9, 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1153</guid>
		<description>[...] to Abandon Private Settlement, Support Orphan Works Legislation &#8212; The Internet Archive’s Brewster Kahle has called on Google to give up its private settlement of the orphan works issue with the authors and publishers and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Abandon Private Settlement, Support Orphan Works Legislation &mdash; The Internet Archive’s Brewster Kahle has called on Google to give up its private settlement of the orphan works issue with the authors and publishers and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SearchCap: The Day In Search, October 9, 2009</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1149</link>
		<dc:creator>SearchCap: The Day In Search, October 9, 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1149</guid>
		<description>[...] Google Claims to be the Lone Defender of Orphans: Not lone, not defender, Open Content Alliance (OCA) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Google Claims to be the Lone Defender of Orphans: Not lone, not defender, Open Content Alliance (OCA) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Google, Plaintiffs Have One Month To Revise Book Search Settlement</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1147</link>
		<dc:creator>Google, Plaintiffs Have One Month To Revise Book Search Settlement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1147</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8212; including the Book Search legal battle &#8212; Brewster Kahle of the Internet Archive responded by calling some Google&#8217;s statements &#8220;twisted at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8212; including the Book Search legal battle &#8212; Brewster Kahle of the Internet Archive responded by calling some Google&#8217;s statements &#8220;twisted at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Google Co-Founder, Sergey Brin, Has Op-Ed Published in New York Times &#171; ResourceShelf</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1145</link>
		<dc:creator>Google Co-Founder, Sergey Brin, Has Op-Ed Published in New York Times &#171; ResourceShelf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1145</guid>
		<description>[...] On Wednesday (before the Op-Ed was published), Brewster Kahle, from the Internet Archive and the Open Content Alliance responded to verbal remarks made by Sergey Brin and Eric Schmidt.  Google Founder Sergey Brin said: “[T]he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On Wednesday (before the Op-Ed was published), Brewster Kahle, from the Internet Archive and the Open Content Alliance responded to verbal remarks made by Sergey Brin and Eric Schmidt.  Google Founder Sergey Brin said: “[T]he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RSS For Gadgets &#187; Google&#8217;s Sergey Brin lashes out at critics of $125m book deal</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1142</link>
		<dc:creator>RSS For Gadgets &#187; Google&#8217;s Sergey Brin lashes out at critics of $125m book deal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1142</guid>
		<description>[...] longer than Google – and Google&#8217;s &#8217;settlement&#8217; could hurt our efforts,&#8221; he wrote in a blog post on Wednesday. &#8220;A major part of our efforts have concentrated on changing the law so everyone would [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] longer than Google – and Google&#8217;s &#8217;settlement&#8217; could hurt our efforts,&#8221; he wrote in a blog post on Wednesday. &#8220;A major part of our efforts have concentrated on changing the law so everyone would [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Open Book Alliance</title>
		<link>http://www.opencontentalliance.org/2009/10/07/google-claims-to-be-the-lone-defender-of-orphans-not-lone-not-defender/comment-page-1/#comment-1140</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Book Alliance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opencontentalliance.org/?p=586#comment-1140</guid>
		<description>[...] Unsurprisingly, Brewster took umbrage with this latest salvo of nonsense from Google, and penned a response on the Open Content Alliance [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Unsurprisingly, Brewster took umbrage with this latest salvo of nonsense from Google, and penned a response on the Open Content Alliance [...]</p>
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